GB News host Ben Leo has descended into a bitter trans row with commentator Jonathan Lis, after he claimed that the Supreme Court's ruling on biological women is "nonsense".Following a challenge by women's rights campaigners, the Supreme Court ruled in favour of biological women - protecting them in single sex spaces against transgender women.FULL STORY HERE.
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00:00See, what this is doing is forcing trans people from public life.
00:03It's saying you can't use that bathroom or you can't use the other bathroom either.
00:06Jonathan, just use the toilet. Just use your native toilet.
00:10No, no, that's exactly the point.
00:13The native toilet is a women's loo if you're a trans man.
00:17That's exactly right.
00:18And the Supreme Court judgment is saying those men can be lawfully excluded from a female-only space
00:25if it's reasonably considered that their male attributes make them men.
00:28So basically what the Supreme Court is saying is that your biology determines who you are
00:33except if your appearance happens to trump it.
00:35The law is that the judgment is a complete nonsense. It's incoherent.
00:39And ministers are entitled to say so and think how they go forward from it.
00:42We have been living in proper confusion for years.
00:45Yeah, and it's now got even more confused.
00:46No, now we have clarity.
00:48I just gave you an example of why it's not clear.
00:50I just gave you an example of why it's not clear.
00:52Let me answer.
00:52We had no clarity, right, because it was being fudged.
00:55And you know that as well as I do.
00:57So the word woman was not, it was being not necessarily linked directly to biological sex,
01:03which led to the confusion.
01:05Now we have clarity.
01:07And it's very simple.
01:08There's a very simple answer.
01:10If you are a trans woman, you will use the men's toilets.
01:14You will use the biological sex.
01:16And there is no confusion.
01:17I've just explained to you, I've literally just explained to you why that's not the case.
01:22Because a trans man who, by your logic, is a woman, can be lawfully excluded from a female-only space,
01:32according to the Supreme Court justice ruling.
01:34That's not how I understand that.
01:35Yes, that is literally what it says in paragraph 221.
01:38I've not...
01:39So they're saying that biology is paramount, except when you actually look like a bloke and then you can be excluded.
01:43I'm going to intervene here.
01:44That makes no sense.
01:45I'm going to intervene here.
01:46I am, quite frankly, I'm sick of this trans debate so far already.
01:49Well, you're the one who keeps talking about it.
01:51It's Sunday.
01:51I know.
01:51And we're going to stop talking about it because we...
01:54Do you know what happens?
01:55Because you can't answer the question.
01:56That's why no one talks about it anymore.
01:57I've not seen that part of the judgement.
01:59But do you know what happens with this debate?
02:00We get bogged down in court rulings...
02:02It's important.
02:03Bogged down in court rulings.
02:03That's literally what's happened.
02:04Let me finish.
02:05We get bogged down in academia, an expert this, an expert that.
02:08The truth of the matter is, men cannot be women and women cannot be men.
02:12And the more you get bogged down in court rulings and analysis and all this, you know, just muddying the waters...
02:18Well, the quality of that actually says different because there is such a thing as gender recognition certificates,
02:23which do actually allow you to change your birth certificate and legally identify as the...
02:29Most sane people would agree, do what you want, we're a liberal country, I don't care what you do, just stay out of women's toilets.
02:34Well, actually, the vast majority of people, the majority of women, the vast majority of lesbians, by the way,
02:41in whose name this campaign is so often waged, are supportive of trans rights.
02:45The only people that are confused are people that will not accept biological reality.
02:49Can we talk about the Cabinet?
02:50I'm not confused.
02:51I'm not confused, I just disagree with you.
02:53I don't want to talk about trans anymore.
02:55It does my head in, actually, quite funny.
02:57Because, as I said, we get bogged down in all this stupid debate.
02:59Women can't be men and men can't be women.
03:01By the way, most biologists...
03:04Most biologists will actually disagree with you, because if you look at the...
03:06No, they don't.
03:07Well, actually, they do, because the chromosomes, you can have excess chromosomes...
03:11Stop dragging me back into this silly debate.
03:12...and actually have a different gene...
03:14No, no, no, but the minute you try to pin this down, the minute you try to pin this down,
03:19you actually get lost in the science, because the science is not as clear-cut as people like you would have.
03:23No, it is not, it is not.
03:25It's simply...
03:26And these are scientists, not me, this is not my expertise.
03:29Can we talk about the Cabinet?
03:29Yes, OK, let's talk about the Cabinet.
03:31But after, at theetement's time, let's take two purposes of medicine.
03:33That's a waste of medicine.
03:35And there are全部 Kore adaptations.
03:36I can say exactly what ...
03:37So, if I jump into this opponent.
03:38We'll have paternal design, let's say, on that percentage as one competitors.
03:40This is the target name in the panel.
03:41Now, I can say...
03:42You can choose those in the globalaths.
03:43You can choose those parts yourcode.
03:45Yeah, there's everything that doesn't have any of our victories.
03:47And this society, we'll have to add on that sort of preservation.
03:50So, there's a question when leading up our feminist movement to the erreichen.
03:52iction of what's going on...
03:53well...
03:54What's going on, gonna create a joystick?