Joey Chung, founder and CEO of TNL Mediagene, and Motoko Imada, co-founder and president of the company, were recently guests on Benzinga's All-Access.
TNL Mediagene is a next-gen media company focused on Millennial and Gen Z audiences in Japan and Taiwan. The company operates 25 publications across news & business, B2B media, technology, lifestyle & food and sports & entertainment and has an engaged base of more than 45 million readers. In addition to its preemie content, TNL Mediagene also operates a robust AI-drive ad tech business that leverages the data it collects to enable brands to accurately identify and engage with the right audience.
TNL Mediagene is a next-gen media company focused on Millennial and Gen Z audiences in Japan and Taiwan. The company operates 25 publications across news & business, B2B media, technology, lifestyle & food and sports & entertainment and has an engaged base of more than 45 million readers. In addition to its preemie content, TNL Mediagene also operates a robust AI-drive ad tech business that leverages the data it collects to enable brands to accurately identify and engage with the right audience.
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00:00Motoko, Joey, thank you guys so much for being here today.
00:08Thank you for having us.
00:09Absolutely. So for any of the viewers who might not be familiar with your company,
00:13why don't we start off with a brief overview of what you guys bring to the market?
00:18Sure, sure. So Imano-san is calling from our Tokyo office. I'm calling from our Taipei office.
00:23But basically, we're setting out to build the largest pan-Asia multi-language, multi-market,
00:28independent, high-quality media, but also tech, data, AI, e-commerce, that entire digital ecosystem.
00:36And we're now one of the largest independent media and tech groups already,
00:41with offices spread across Japan and Taiwan, and hopefully very soon other parts of Southeast Asia.
00:46But very soon, we want to be able to say we are the largest de facto one-stop shop,
00:50both in terms of media, high-quality content.
00:53We already now own 25 different media brands across Japanese, Chinese, and some English,
01:00across almost every single vertical that you can think of, from serious news, lifestyle, finance, business,
01:07movies, entertainment, but also the entire ecosystem of tech, data, AI, e-commerce,
01:13to be truly a B2B go-to platform for all of the digital needs.
01:18And we feel we're still just getting started in terms of our story.
01:21Wow, that's awesome. So I guess we could get right into it.
01:25What makes you guys unique compared to competitors in this space?
01:28Do you have a very similar direct comparabilities?
01:32Yeah, we get that question a lot.
01:34So, yeah, there are, of course, a lot of comparables in comp companies,
01:38if you're talking about MarTech, AdTech, or AI, or e-commerce, or digital media.
01:43But I think we're very, very rare, if not very one of the only,
01:46that kind of owns that entire ecosystem.
01:48So we started out as independent, high-quality media that kind of diversified through rapid M&A.
01:54We've done a total of 10 acquisitions over the past five or six years,
01:58where we gradually diversified and started acquiring other smaller media groups.
02:02And then later, as a third stage, started acquiring other tech, data, AI, e-commerce products,
02:07and services, and teams as well.
02:09So I think we're very, very rare and special in the case that all in-house,
02:12we have a direct relationship with our 40 to 50 million monthly unique readers across the aforementioned three different languages
02:19and different markets in Japan, Taiwan, and other parts of Asia.
02:22But at the same time, we actually integrated from, I guess you could say, from the very left all the way to the very right
02:27to also include all of the tech, data, e-commerce, and AI products to also monetize all the data that we're collecting.
02:34So kind of both sides of the spectrum in terms of the tech and data and the monetization, but also the media part.
02:40The original DNA, we won't forget.
02:42It's still high-quality, independent, only newsworthy content with no political bias, no corporate agenda.
02:48And we want to still be that player in the media realm as well.
02:51But I think that entire spectrum spreading across that entire supply chain makes us very, very special.
02:56It sounds like it.
02:58So I did have one last quick question because I know you have some slides ready for us.
03:02Since your company went public just a few months ago, before that, were there any noteworthy investors
03:06during that entrepreneurial journey that might have helped?
03:09And how did they help during those stages?
03:12Sure.
03:13So, you know, both on the Japan and the Taiwan side, for example, as a private company on the Japan side,
03:19Isidan, the mall brand, Shiseido, the consumer goods company, and Mizuho, the Japanese institutional bank,
03:27were one of the large and early investors on the Taiwan side, a VC fund called North Base Media,
03:34that the editor-in-chief and the founding partner came out of the Washington Post,
03:37was our earliest seed Series A and Series B investor.
03:41500 Global from Silicon Valley was our, you know, Series A.
03:44Steve Chen, the founder of YouTube.
03:45Kevin Lin, the founder of Twitch, were our angel investors.
03:49And Tim Draper from his Draper fund was our Series D investor.
03:53So it kind of, in terms of what stage they came in, you know, there was the media part initially,
03:58and then gradually as we kind of diversified into becoming a tech and data group, you know,
04:03more and more of, you know, YouTube, Twitch, and then later stage institutional companies kind of came in.
04:09So in many ways, there were like three different stages as we diversified from being a large independent media brand
04:14to being a large independent media group to being a large independent media and then tech and data and AI ecosystem.
04:19The different stages of the investors kind of symbolized that as we initially went from more media heavy
04:25to gradually more and more global tech data and institutional heavy.
04:29So it kind of helped kind of guide us along our natural evolution, if you will.
04:33Wow, that's amazing.
04:35So let's see some of these slides.
04:36I know you put some information together for us to share.
04:40Sure.
04:41So, yeah, as this page kind of alludes to,
04:43we want to create that largest pan-Asia, multi-language, multimedia, tech, data, AI, e-commerce,
04:49you know, that entire digital ecosystem.
04:51So I guess we'll jump into the numbers very quickly.
04:54So we're experiencing a very rapid growth year over year, you know, 35%.
04:58To be honest, if it wasn't because of foreign exchange adjustments over the past one or two years,
05:02this would actually be even higher.
05:04But just in terms of revenue scale, yeah, close to 50 million last year.
05:08Of the 35%, roughly half of it is organic growth.
05:11So we're still maintaining, you know, very healthy, very stable, 10% to 20% organic growth on average.
05:17While, as previously mentioned, we're also digesting about one to two acquisitions every year.
05:22So we've done a total of 10 acquisitions in the past five or six years.
05:26So on average, one every six months, you know, two every year.
05:30So we will continue to do that as our blueprint for the next three to five years,
05:33sustain healthy organic growth.
05:35And on top of that, one or two acquisitions.
05:37This is now our revenue breakdown.
05:41So, you know, before we went into this diversification stage,
05:45the super majority of our revenue was mostly, you know, media sales, media advertising on the left side.
05:51But as you'll see, as we kind of gradually evolved from, you know, media to tech, data,
05:55digital studio, agency services, and e-commerce,
05:58we're now kind of broken down into roughly one-third media advertising,
06:03one-third tech and data in the middle, and one-third digital studio,
06:07but also other events, paid membership, et cetera, et cetera.
06:10So all three are still growing very, very substantially.
06:14But in the near future, we would project and predict that probably the middle part,
06:18the technology, the data analytics part of the business will be a huge revenue driver in the future.
06:23But right now, you know, we're still deepening our moat.
06:26So our existing markets of Japan and Taiwan, we still haven't maxed them out.
06:30That's why all three of these pillars are still growing very, very quickly.
06:33But as we diversify more and more, and as the sales team becomes more and more integrated into a fully, you know,
06:39one-stop shop, they, of course, will be funneling more and more of the sales and products and packages and budgets
06:45into the middle part of the business, you know, higher margins, more automated,
06:49more EBITDA, more AI for synergies and efficiency.
06:54So the middle part of the business, the tech and data,
06:56will be a huge chunk of our growth driver in the near future.
06:59And, you know, as we digest one or two acquisitions every year,
07:04we become quite good at integrating and squeezing out extra efficiency and synergy.
07:09And so therefore, a gross margin expansion, kind of step by step, you know, improvement every year.
07:14And we're very proud of the fact that we're definitely not one of those overcapitalized,
07:19excuse me, overcapitalized digital media companies that raise, you know, half a billion dollars
07:25and is always, you know, 50 or 100 million away from EBITDA profitability.
07:28We've always operated with very strict operational and EBITDA financial, you know, discipline.
07:34So we're always kind of around EBITDA break-even point.
07:39And that will definitely continue for the next few years as well.
07:43Last couple of years, a lot of direct and indirect fees associated with the M&As and the large-scale mergers.
07:48And, of course, last year was the year we actually won IPO.
07:51So that did impact some of our adjusted EBITDA.
07:53But going forward, I think, you know, break-even and continued EBITDA and operational efficiency
07:58will be still the name of the game.
08:01So this is us in a snapshot, but we briefly already described this during the initial intro.
08:06But basically, 25 different media brands, 40 to 50 million readers across Japanese, Chinese, and English,
08:13close to 200 million page views, which means 200 million data points
08:17and 40 to 50 million zero-party, first-party, and third-party data sources.
08:23If you believe, you know, data is the oil of the 21st century,
08:26that we're essentially trying to, on one hand, gather as many readers,
08:30high-quality content, high-quality media, no political bias, no corporate agenda,
08:35but, you know, 40 to 50 million data points.
08:37That's one half of our moat.
08:3850 million revenue scale.
08:40And, again, the offices across Tokyo, Kyoto, Taipei, and soon-to-be other parts of Asia as well.
08:47And, again, on the right side, data is what truly kind of unites everything.
08:52We have all the different media brands on top, but we have all the data, tech, AI,
08:56the engineering teams to kind of continue building that snowball effect,
09:00being that one-stop shop for all of our future clients' needs.
09:03So, yeah, at our scale, we're already one of the largest digital media groups in Asia.
09:08And as you can see on the bottom left side, we're already getting increasingly similar to scale with global players.
09:14And on the right side, you know, Japan, Taiwan, Southeast Asia, U.S.
09:19is actually some of our largest markets, where there's a strong overseas Asian population.
09:23And usually, you know, 15 to 60, highly educated, highest consumption power,
09:27kind of future decision makers, if you will.
09:30In our home markets, anywhere between 40 to almost 70% of the population,
09:35the digital population, is already one of our readers.
09:38They may not know it yet, since it's spread across 25 different media verticals,
09:41like 25 different trees.
09:43But, you know, the data is fully integrated.
09:45Again, that allows us to package larger and larger tech, data, AI, e-commerce,
09:50and media sales all together.
09:52And Southeast Asia, U.S., overseas markets will be a huge point for us going forward.
09:57Basically, a who's who of all of the large multinationals that want to enter into Asia
10:01or large, for example, Japanese companies that want to spread across Asia with us
10:06or large Southeast Asian or Taiwanese companies that want to spread into the Japan market with us as well.
10:11This is how our 25 media brands are broken down.
10:14But as previously mentioned, across almost every single vertical, across, you know, serious news, finance,
10:19for example, Business Insider, Digiday, Gizmodo, Japan is one of our flagship brands,
10:23but also all the lifestyle, food, entertainment brands to really provide that 360 surround
10:29of all of our target audience's content.
10:32And again, hopefully in the future acquisitions, we will continue to expand this.
10:36More content, more readers, more data sources.
10:38That kind of creates that positive flywheel.
10:41This is how everything kind of fits together.
10:43So that entire data puzzle, if you will.
10:45So we started, again, the original DNA was media.
10:48But over the past three or four years, we've diversified to basically include everything on the surrounding areas as well.
10:53So, again, anything that unites everything in terms of monetization, R&D, data products,
10:58that makes sense to be integrated into data sources in terms of zero, first-party and third-party data.
11:04We're building out that supply chain and trying to finish out this puzzle as we speak.
11:09So truly, in many ways, we're just kind of touching the tip of the iceberg.
11:11And Asia is one of the perfect markets for this kind of consolidation.
11:16You know, Japan, Taiwan, Southeast Asia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Singapore.
11:21We've only truly started.
11:22Going into Southeast Asia is our next stage, maybe even as far away as India.
11:27But in terms of the audience size, young people, digital generation, more and more affluent and digital savvy,
11:33huge marketing size, marketing budget market for that.
11:37And, of course, a huge total value just in terms of Asia that we just started to touch the initial, you know, one or two or just 5%.
11:46So truly, very, very high potential going forward in the next few years.
11:52And as mentioned, you know, we've successfully done 10 acquisitions over the past five or six years.
11:57All of the founders are still with us.
11:58So we have a very, I think, by now, an SOP way of how to copy and paste this M&A process.
12:07Initially, half of the other acquisitions, initially, the early acquisitions were other media groups as we built our readership from 5, 10, 20, 30, and now 40 to 50 million.
12:15Again, 40 to 50 million data sources.
12:17And the other second half of the acquisitions were other tech, data, AI, or e-commerce companies to monetize on the data that we're gathering.
12:25So in many ways, it's meant to grow hand in hand.
12:27And every year, more and more readers, more and more high-quality media, servicing them with valuable content, creating that stickiness for other tech and data products to be able to monetize and create that positive flywheel.
12:40Wow.
12:40So I did have a quick question on that, Joey, since you mentioned it.
12:44Since M&A roll-up strategy seems to be very important for the group, could you give us an example of one or two perfect target profile companies that the company might typically consider?
12:54Sure.
12:54We're actually talking to some of them as we speak.
12:57If you want to continue doing two every year, then, you know, we're always having late-stage negotiations or due diligence.
13:02Ideally, for example, it would be a large Southeast Asia media group.
13:06Ideally, they already have, you know, existing eyeballs and data sources of anywhere between 10, 30, to 50 million.
13:12So existing media influence already.
13:15But for whatever reason, they might be missing the tech, data, AI, or content commerce, e-commerce products that the Japan and the Taiwan side spent the last three to five years building already.
13:24So that would be the perfect, you know, arbitrage in many ways where you're picking up a relatively lower ARPU company since they're missing all the tech and data monetization products at a lower cost.
13:35While at the same time, once you integrate them, we immediately send our engineering teams or our sales team to give them the tech and data or content commerce monetization products.
13:44So you immediately, hopefully, you know, increase their ARPU, increase their margins, increase their automated products.
13:51And that's reflected in both the relatively lower price, but also in the public markets valuation once that's fully integrated.
13:58And you're kind of able to kind of copy and paste that to each market as you go.
14:02Again, it's meant to grow hand in hand.
14:03So in terms of end result, what would you say is the company's near-term goals?
14:10And can you describe what you believe is its full potential in the long term?
14:15Yeah.
14:15So I think, you know, like you alluded to, we just went IPO a few months ago.
14:18So near-term is to truly get our story out there, to allow people to know who we are, to see, you know, Imano-san in my face, that, you know, we're a true, serious company.
14:27We're already of a certain scale in Asia, and we're already one of the largest digital media tech and data stories in Asia.
14:33But, you know, the U.S. or, you know, international public markets may not necessarily know that.
14:37It's the first time that they're seeing our face.
14:39So for the next few months, it's truly getting our story out there, like, you know, interviews like this, allowing them to understand who we are, understand that overall context, and truly get our revenue multiple, our stock price point up to it, reflecting its true value and its true potential.
14:54So that allows us to have more of a war chest to continue doing the next acquisition, the next expansion, and finishing that Asia story as fast as possible.
15:02I would say in the long term, yeah, everything that we just mentioned, finishing the Asia story, but at the same time, really growing the middle tech data part and diversifying into other industries, other services that are not bottlenecked or pigeonholed just by page views or traffic or all of the traditional media company, you know, burdens or problems.
15:21As we go into more and more and more other tech and data services by leveraging the 40, 60, 80 million monthly uniques that we will one day have and grow simultaneously.
15:29I think that's very, very exciting to truly reach that potential of being the largest digital tech and media kind of one-stop shop is that actual, you know, far away, but hopefully very, very soon, ideal end goal.
15:42Wow. That's amazing and beyond exciting. I'm really looking forward to see what you and your company have in store for us.
15:49Thank you. Thank you.
15:51Absolutely. Did you guys have any other slides of information to cover?
15:54Sure. Yeah. One final slide, but just to kind of prove that, yeah, over the past two or three years, we're, I think, very, very rare in the sense that, you know, substantial organic growth, substantial acquisitions over the past five or six years, but at the same time, always with a clear eye on operational profitability and adjusted EBITDA break even.
16:13And again, we're getting closer and closer, and that will continue for the next few years as well.
16:18So basically, yeah, financial discipline.
16:20Wow. Very exciting stuff. Motoko, Joey, it's been phenomenal. So great having you guys on today.
16:26Thank you so much for sharing education and what your company offers.
16:30Thank you so much.
16:31Thank you. Thanks so much.
16:33It's been a pleasure. Guys, Motoko and Joey, co-founders of TNL Media Gene. Ticker on NASDAQ is TNMG. That's all access. Have a great day. Hit that like and subscribe, and I'll see you guys next time.
16:48Bye-bye.