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00:00because we'll start with where things finish you know survivor is often described as an emotional
00:06roller coaster and in one evening you got to experience the frustration of you know your
00:12plan going up in flames the devastation of getting voted out and then simultaneously the confusion
00:18of one of your former allies giving you a standing ovation on the way out give me your like entire
00:25reaction over the course of like that 45 second period of time oh my god I was really proud of
00:32myself because I was like damn I am serving in my final episode um I made myself laugh uh when I
00:39watched myself crack all crap crack oh crap open crack open all the coconuts um I made myself cry
00:45when I cried when I didn't get picked for the reward and I made myself proud when I you know
00:50saw myself playing so fucking hard you know I was doing the best that I could you know and I was
00:56trying to appeal to really smart people I was trying to appeal to really smart people with logic um and
01:02it didn't work out but I don't really think there was anything else I could do but I was and then I
01:07was oh my god I wanted to cry out of sadness when I got voted out and I did not expect that I would be
01:14crying out of fucking laughter at David standing up I had heard about that moment okay like honestly I
01:20did not see that when it was happening I did not see that I was you know out of body um when it was
01:27all going down and I'd heard people be like yo David stood up and I'm like the fuck like like like stood
01:32up once sat down or like what's going on like but to see him just literally stand up as if I'm his
01:38fallen comrade uh I love David so much that was hilarious David has always been just a really you
01:45know he's got a lot of heart and in that moment he was he was he was feeling it so yes fucking
01:52hilarious and also star trying to hold back her laughter trying to be like as polite as she could
01:57literally while in her mind thinking god damn David sit your ass down well I know that's what
02:03star was thinking I want to stay on the David train for a second because this clearly was you
02:07know one of your tightest relationships throughout the whole game I'd love to hear your perspective on
02:12especially because you know when I talked with David about it he sort of vocalized that you know
02:17maybe it was not as uh requited in a manner of speaking I think he said that you were you know
02:22uh rather clingy with all the stuff yeah with the stuff that he was doing give me your reaction to all
02:26that and your perspective on the relationship yeah yeah yeah when I saw that David called me clingy
02:30I was like David come on I love David um but I have to clear up that from the first day of new
02:40loggy um David Eva and I collectively agreed that we would be working together we were collectively
02:47hyped to work together because it was mutually beneficial I hope you put the emphasis on those
02:54on those things um mutually italicized beneficial because I was a number for them um and they were
03:02the first people since day fives when Kevin got voted out who wanted to work with me who I could trust
03:08um I mean we see Eva is not a good liar Eva does not really lie and so who doesn't want to work
03:15with someone who doesn't lie and then David so fucking strong um like I know people are gonna be
03:21like oh my god she said he was so fucking strong okay guys there was nothing romantic going on between
03:24me and David ever ever ever nor will they'll ever ever be but David was gonna help us win challenges
03:30um and prevent and and stop me from going back to tribal council coming from Vula where I went to
03:37tribal council every single fucking time that one could go to fucking tribal council I was elated
03:43that now I could work with someone who could prevent that um and and yeah so it was it was it from the
03:52beginning it was David Eva and I collectively agreeing that we were going to work together and they didn't
03:58also show that um even I had a relationship as well which got completely soured when you know they voted
04:05out David but you know listen I don't think people understand the desperation that I felt coming
04:10from Vula I know desperation is not cute but also there is no way that anybody who survived Vula would
04:17not be desperate because I felt like I had gotten so many second chances and so I every time that I was
04:25alive on that island I was like it could be my I was like it can be my last day um and so they wanted
04:33to work with me and I could trust them and uh listen if you're selling I'm buying well I want
04:38to talk about some of the final things that you did in this episode going back to the Eva of it all
04:42because you know um unlike that machete you were swinging around you know you were blunt in some of
04:47the stuff that you were doing whether it was that conversation with Eva over the coconut where you
04:51tell her like listen you're probably going on a reward and I'm not which ends up definitely I said I
04:56said you're definitely going on a reward you will be picked you will be eating tomorrow and then you
05:01have obviously your sort of uh move where you you just tell Joe openly in front of a mixed company
05:07yeah I'm voting for you were these part of any sort of tactics you were pursuing or was this more so
05:12from like a don't give a fuck attitude I'm on the way out anyway might as well like really call out
05:17what these people are doing to their face yeah yeah yeah I would have more tact if I felt like I had
05:23more life in the game um but I knew that it wasn't gonna happen um whatever I was trying to cook up
05:31um and so I just reverted to my real life self which is incredibly blunt um and uh I'm very happy
05:40that I did it because like listen it's not very often that you get to say what you really feel to
05:44people's faces so I mean to that point you had experienced some really interesting conversations
05:50conversations with both Eva and Joe in last week's episode right where you had even sort of called out
05:56in the confessional like yeah I know this is jury management on both of your parts talk to me about
06:00what your reception to that was because I mean to your point you had a tight relationship with Eva
06:06earlier so I imagine you were feeling a certain way where after David's blindsided she sits you down
06:11and to a certain extent is basically like yeah listen uh I'll try to protect you but no promises
06:17yeah no um I actually I didn't enjoy that conversation with Eva at all but also I left
06:24it being like damn respect like that's a hard thing to say to someone's face to be like hey
06:29I I don't know if I want to I'm not working with you anymore um I didn't like it but I did respect it
06:37um I think because like in my life I have um like struggled to be I'm really blunt now but in the past
06:46I I'd struggled with people pleasing tendencies and so I was like damn she's just being real um I want to
06:51say I did the reason I asked her if she would use the idol on me is because when she unlocked stars idol
06:57um she was like I'm using this on all of us and so you know a girl's got to shoot her shot right
07:04like if she said that before like maybe she still means this maybe um so yeah that conversation with
07:12Eva I was okay with it because she wasn't pretending to be doing anything just I was annoyed at I was
07:20like damn I gotta sit through this um because it was very clear and I love Joe and Eva both um in real
07:25life um not in the game but in real life and um with Joe's I was just like damn like you're really
07:32wasting both of our time right now by like making me sit through this it's also not helping you at all
07:38in any way it's not achieving what you think it's achieving you mentioned before that you know you had
07:44a very good sense that everything you were pitching was not being caught by everyone outside of Joe and
07:50Eva why do you think that was the case was there particular relationships was it just the the way
07:57the game was at what made you feel like this was such an open and shut vote to get you out uh okay
08:03so to keep myself organized I think it's two prong the answer is two prong I don't even do people even
08:09say that whatever and then but the reason I knew it was happening was because nobody made eye contact
08:13with me like the last couple of days was really hard for me because I knew that it wasn't personal
08:20but um I really felt it in my heart because in my head I knew it wasn't personal but there's a lag
08:27between your heart and your head and my what my heart was picking up was that nobody's talking to me
08:33it looks as if I'm going to infect people with cooties if they just make eye contact with me
08:37so that's how I knew and I think the reason is two prong first the relationships that the people had
08:43were really tight like throughout the season you hear people saying this is a season of
08:47relationships and connections I left that island thinking that I was going to be like Venus and not
08:53have a single friend I left the island before I got to Ponderosa and I thought damn I'm really going
08:59to have to go to these viewing parties with people and uh well actually I'm not going to go to them
09:04the one that you know if there's one that the show is hosting I'll go to that but like any other
09:09ones like damn I guess I'm just going to watch it solo um so in a season of connections I had
09:15no connections and everyone else had day one connections Kyle and Camilla Eva and Joe Shaheen
09:20Eva and Joe and so I think they were just really tight and the second reason two prong right not
09:25one prong is that people were after the game a lot of people came up to me and they were like yo
09:31we're sorry we didn't play with you we're sorry we didn't talk to you or try to get to know
09:37you because um we thought you were a threat and we thought that if you made it to final
09:43trouble council you would win and take all the votes rightfully or wrongfully my cast mates viewed
09:49me as a threat I think they didn't know that so much of me getting off of Vula was luck but what
09:55they saw of me um their perception of me was that I was very manipulative um that I was you know like
10:03physically not bad of a competitor um and I don't know why everybody just kept saying I had good
10:09social game but I'm like the fuck I like literally have not had like a personal conversation with any
10:14of you guys I've tried but I also just can't get along with you guys in the game I don't know why
10:18um but yeah rightfully or wrongfully my cast mates viewed me as a threat and they didn't
10:24tribe mates viewed me as a threat and they didn't want to sit next to me in final trouble council
10:28well you talk about these sort of duos or you know day ones you had a rather complicated I don't
10:35even know if you want to call it a friendship a frenemyship with say definitely not a friendship
10:41well I want to hear your perspective on this you know twosome between the tailing of each other
10:47through the jungle the arguing tribal council the truce that you made the decision to turn everything
10:52at the merge we weren't tailing each other I was being tailed that's very true I want to preface
10:59all of this by saying that after the game ended say called me and apologized and I accepted her
11:04apology so I just want to say that preface everything that I say with that um but yeah out there
11:10she made my life a living hell um I did not have fun at all on Vula everyone's like oh my god did you
11:18have fun and I literally told people like after the season ended right people were like did you have
11:23fun and I'm like no I didn't have fun like are you crazy were we watching the same show I'm literally
11:29being chased I feel like I'm prey right now I'm on the island I'm walking with Justin and say
11:34and uh Justin say or Cedric they're always staying a few steps behind me whispering about me and I I just
11:44keep turning my head around to like interrupt their conversation because I don't want them plotting
11:47against me like I slept on the beach while all of them slept in the shelter because I could not
11:54stand the fact that I had to sleep and be vulnerable when you're most vulnerable near people who wanted
12:00me out from day from the first tribal council I was on the outs so yeah no I was not having fun at all
12:06um and that was mainly due to say but also because she's such a great competitor but yeah when I said that
12:13I was having fun Mike I was lying I was not lying to other people I was lying to myself in the game
12:19of survivor you have to lie and sometimes that means lying to yourself I knew that the only way that I
12:24could make it was not be physically strong but mentally strong I knew that if I allowed myself to
12:30feel the isolation the fear and the rejection and the hopelessness that I actually was feeling
12:37I would not have the strength to make it to the next day not that I'm being so dramatic not as
12:42if I'm gonna fucking keel over and die but um I knew that I had to lie to myself and say that I
12:47was having fun um I had to try to convince myself that everything was okay I did a pretty good job of
12:55that um convincing myself and I guess convincing other people but yeah no I did not have fun at all
13:00but you know what that's okay because even though life is about having fun I firmly believe that um
13:06experience meaningful experiences are not always fun yeah that's it's a very good way to put it I
13:13mean on that note I would love to hear about how you sort of reflect upon your experience because look
13:17to say it was not ideal would be an understatement considering all the times you were on the bottom
13:22you know facing this tribe decimation you know getting this exhilaration of playing your shot in the
13:27dark but then facing all of these other you know moments of tumultuousness so how do you look back
13:34upon this experience I look back upon this experience and recognize the power of emotional
13:43strengths the reason why I didn't even make it to the final phase of the last challenge that I was in
13:49was not because I physically couldn't do it it's because my soul was tired listen like I
13:56this feel after Justin after Stephanie after Kevin after Justin after David after Star I had that
14:06familiar feeling of surviving tribal and for half a millisecond being like oh and then immediately
14:12dipping down my stomach like dropping to my feet thinking okay great but like what the fuck is next
14:18and date that was okay you know like from the first tribal council now we're at day 21 I had felt this
14:26feeling so many fucking times and I think my soul was just like girl maybe it's time I could not imagine
14:34a way forward and looking back I see that maybe if I literally won all of the immunity challenges
14:40afterwards I could have done it but I was just tired I felt like I had been actively antagonized on
14:47Vula and then I felt like I had been intentionally ostracized um like the last few days and I I think
14:55my body and my soul was trying to protect me from from having more emotional harm but I mean I would
15:01like I would like to say also that like I understand why people did that like everybody out here is
15:08playing I have a lot of grace for myself but that means I also extended to other people um the people
15:12that I played the game with for everyone it was their first time playing and for everyone
15:16everybody was making the decision that they thought was best for themselves I cannot fault them for
15:21that and uh I cannot fault myself for like feeling incredibly hurt by the last few days of the game
15:29like when we came back from the challenge um nobody said anything to me I thought that like oh my god if
15:36someone is going to cry in front of Jeff because they didn't get picked for the reward at least somebody
15:40would be like hey man like it's okay nobody said anything to me I felt incredibly hurt by that but I
15:46also knew that it's because also it was such a tense time and everybody was in their heads and
15:50disappointed in themselves to focus on their own perceived failures to extend any kind of empathy
15:56towards me this is why I love having conversations with you Mary is that you're incredibly open and
16:02incredibly eloquent with what you express but I think the fact that you've been able to reflect not
16:06only upon your own feelings upon again an incredibly arduous experience but then also extend that grace to
16:12the others just just speaks about who you are and what you were able to bring within yourself that
16:17allowed you to last three weeks within an absolutely up and down experience so as always I I am I really
16:25relish not only the conversations we get to have but the fact that you know you have been incredibly
16:29open about the fact that Survivor is not going to be this incredibly positive life-affirming experience
16:36for each and every person and so as always as we saw in this last few episodes lovingly so I'm so
16:43thrilled you're able to open up about all that today because I think it's it's incredibly clarifying for
16:47a lot of fans too yeah yeah absolutely I mean like literally it you know how I was talking about how I
16:53thought I would be you know just like bitter and not have any friends that completely changed for me
16:57when I got to Ponderosa when I was getting out the bus before I got out the bus I looked out the window
17:02and I saw Cedric, Star, Chrissy and David standing outside I thought oh fuck like wow like I I think I
17:10am gonna have some friends you know like these people are showing me care and love um something
17:15that I didn't really experience or especially in the last part of the game but I guess in the beginning
17:20too um and that completely changed my outlook on this experience um Ponderosa was incredibly healing
17:29for me um and uh I really really have to like shout out all those people you know Jerry who welcomed
17:38me for for really healing me honestly well thank you so much for welcoming me and all the fans into
17:45this conversation today and again opening up about this game Mary you know how much I adore getting the
17:50chance to talk with you and I know this won't be the last time so sincerely thank you always so great
17:55to to hear the best of course you're the best as well all the best to you and your family as well
18:00and thank you as always Mary have an amazing day cheers see ya bye