The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has tested the indigenously developed 30-kilowatt Mk-II(A) Laser-Directed Energy Weapon (DEW) system that has put India amongst the few nations, including the US, China, and Russia equipped with high-power Laser-DEW technology, capable of neutralising missiles, drones, and smaller projectiles.
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00:00Hello and a very warm welcome to a special edition of Battle Cry. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:07The future of warfare is here. And you may have seen laser beams in Star Wars, in science fiction movies.
00:15Now see them in action and right here in India.
00:18That's right, the Defense Research and Development Organization or the DRDO has successfully tested a laser weapon to destroy incoming drones.
00:27Now this test took place at Kurnool in Andhra Pradesh.
00:32And India has entered a select club of world powers including the United States, Russia and China that have this technology.
00:40The high powered laser beam shot down an incoming drone.
00:44The Defense Research and Development Organization has put out a video displaying the capabilities of the indigenously designed and developed Mark IIA of the DEW systems.
00:55Or the directed energy weapon systems.
00:59The land version of the laser directed weapons is vehicle mounted and tracked.
01:04It not just tracked the incoming fixed wing unmanned aerial vehicle but also a swarm drone that was coming in.
01:10A swarm of drones that was coming in.
01:11And then this high powered laser beam, it was directed at the UAVs.
01:16All in a fraction of seconds is what we are told.
01:20Watch those images on your television screen.
01:21According to DRDO, this high powered laser beam successfully caused structural damage to the incoming projectile.
01:28The powerful beam also disabled surveillance sensors.
01:31It was also targeted at an antenna.
01:33So imagine if an enemy antenna has to be taken down in the borders or the battle area, it can easily be done so.
01:42The DRDO in its statement said the beam engaged the drone at a long range and successfully thwarted a multiple drone attack.
01:49This technology of course comes with immense possibilities.
01:53The effort is already on to scale the power, work on beam composition for higher efficiency and to take down higher weapons.
02:02Perhaps an incoming hypersonic missile in the coming years.
02:06The effort is also to miniaturize it.
02:07The moment you miniaturize what is this device that's on a huge truck, then you can put it on board an aircraft, an airborne platform, like perhaps a fighter jet.
02:18And with laser beams, work is also on electromagnetic pulse weapons.
02:23Imagine the opportunities and what India can do to the adversary.
02:28The DEW or the directed energy weapon may in times to come replace or at least reduce reliance on the traditional kinetic weapons and missile defense systems due to its ease of operations.
02:39And equally important, if not more, the cost effectiveness.
02:43A fraction of the cost that you would have to pay for a missile that costs much, much more.
02:49So the requirement for cost-effective solution to offset the low-cost drone attacks, because that was a disruptor, that was a game changer, this is a game changer plus.
03:00Militaries world over are looking at this technology and now India is entering a select club of countries that have this technology.
03:09We are also, as DGECS mentioned, looking at how we can miniaturize it to put it on airborne platforms, how to put it on ships.
03:28This is one of the technologies, but we are also working on other high-energy systems like high-energy microwaves, electromagnetic pulse.
03:37So we are working on several technologies which will give us the Star Wars capability.
03:43What you saw today was one of the components of the Star Wars technologies.
03:47For the first time, we are showing a technology in use and its devastation, what we could showcase you in all forms.
03:53That indefinitely shows that how far we are going forward in our technology maturity.
03:57I think technology, the country has matured, and what you saw is an absolute indigenous product of multiple DRDO labs working on synergy,
04:05along with start-up, academic institutions and industries together.
04:09Now, together we could achieve this journey.
04:11We are confident that we are going to reach the higher power very soon.
04:14With a laser weapon, we can do multiple target neutralizations.
04:18So this is one of the new and emerging weapon systems where we have entered into this era of beam weapon.
04:25Earlier, whatever weapon you see, you want to kill, you require a missile to fire, you require a kinetic energy to fire.
04:32But in these cases, you require a beam weapon.
04:35This is a massless weapon, and the concentrate of the laser light, it goes and falls into the target and it neutralizes it.
04:42So this is a big achievement for our country, for a big achievement for our DRDO.
04:47So these directed energy weapons, or DEW, are being seen as an absolute game-changer in emerging warfare.
04:57If drones were disruptive technology, laser weapons, or these beam weapons, like Star Wars weapons,
05:03are adding another layer to that disruption altogether.
05:06And the DEW weapons, they're taking India into a different league of nations that possess this technology.
05:13This is made-in-India technology that DRDO is very proudly displaying a technology demonstrator of.
05:21So this successful test of firing a 30 kilowatt laser energy and neutralizing a drone in seconds has given scientists new energy to scale up and fast.
05:31What does this mean for armed forces?
05:33And remember, India has adversaries on multiple fronts.
05:37So whether it's your army, your navy, or your air force and your forces are tackling threats on multiple fronts,
05:43what does this mean for our forces on ground?
05:46On this Battle Cry special, joining me on the show is Left-in-General Rakesh Sharma,
05:51former co-commander of the Ladakh Corps.
05:54And remember, Ladakh is one area where India is not only extensively deployed,
05:58but extensively deployed in very diverse battlefields to neutralize the threat that emerges from China,
06:05on our northern borders, and of course, Pakistan, the Siachen Glacier,
06:09and in Jammu and Kashmir, separately along with Ladakh.
06:12Group captain, Augustine Vinod, is a former fighter pilot, also a drone expert,
06:16and privileged to have two drone experts on this broadcast.
06:19Captain D.K. Sharma, former spokesperson of the Indian Navy, also a drone expert.
06:23And General Sharma, let me ask you first.
06:26So Dr. Sameer Kama, DRDO chief, he sounds extremely enthusiastic about this technology
06:31and the demonstration that took place.
06:34As far as it comes to our army on the borders and the emerging threats,
06:39what does this mean for our army, sir?
06:40Thank you for inviting me, Gaurav.
06:46Fact is that if you follow what's the warfare on in Ukraine,
06:51the technology of drones is changing every six weeks to two months.
06:55And there are scientists which are now located on the borders
06:58to keep evolving drone and counter-drone technologies.
07:01And as time is passing, this became an imperative to start working on the
07:07directed energy weapons even for us.
07:10Because, you know, what happens is that the drones are becoming increasingly autonomous
07:14or they are being now having drones with a spool of wire, the fiber optic cable.
07:19So, you know, any other form of jamming which could be done or spoofing could be done by electronic
07:24warfare will not be effective against autonomous drones or against the spool of wire, fiber optic cable.
07:32So, the only way to target this new modern drones which are coming up is directed energy weapons.
07:39We already had one flight, which was a two kilowatt weapon, small, short range, 800 meters to one kilometer.
07:47But now the one that has been tested, as you're rightly pointing out, is a 30-gb weapon,
07:52which has got a range of about five watt kilometers of drone.
07:56And, of course, it makes a game-changer.
07:57But we have to keep evolving it because the counter-drone technologies are being constantly involved
08:05in a manner that you have to keep making counter-drone technologies also match up with the kind of set that we have.
08:13Oh, absolutely.
08:14Group captain, we know your appreciation scaling up from 2 to 30 kilowatts, 0.1.
08:20And 0.2, explain for the benefit of our viewers.
08:22So, this is an aim-and-fire weapon.
08:25You acquire it on your EOS system or the electro-optical system.
08:29Acquire it.
08:30How long must that beam stay on the drone?
08:33And what about faster-moving systems and projectiles?
08:37How does it operate on them, sir?
08:40Thank you for having me over.
08:43See, three and a half years ago with Rahul Kamal, on your very show,
08:48I talked about this particular aspect.
08:51I mean, someone who has a phone can Google as drone nightmare and put my name,
08:57you will be able to see that particular video where I talked about this technology.
09:01Now, let's talk about this technology per se, Gaurav.
09:06India is not alien to this technology.
09:08We have been working on this, as far as I know, for more than a decade or decade and a half.
09:14And I'm very sure most of us sitting here and most of the people have heard two technologies that VRDO has been working on very silently called Durga and Kali.
09:28Directionally unrestricted ray gun array, which was a laser weapon system.
09:33They were initially embarked on destroying missiles and other aerial threat.
09:39And Kali was called a kiloampere linear injector, if I'm not wrong, which was an electron beam.
09:48Now, there are two important aspects, Gaurav, that we need to understand.
09:52A, taking out a drone, especially a swarm drone, where, say, 20, 50 of them are coming in with a simple kinetic weapon,
10:03it will be nearly impossible because you need short burst and you need quick shift.
10:09That means, if you have 50 targets that are coming in, you need a shorter burst, as you can see on the video,
10:15and shifting quickly between one and the other drone.
10:19So, a kinetic weapon, other than probably a guided, maybe a bullet,
10:24which is, again, a difficult proposition to achieve at that kind of speed that we are talking about.
10:30This is the only solution that I was talking about the half years ago with Rahul.
10:35So, before I come to, no, I just want to quickly understand, since you're an aviator,
10:40and you've flown the Mirages, you operate drones, how soon can this be miniaturized?
10:45Because right now, when you see it's loaded on a big truck,
10:49how soon can it be miniaturized to be put on airborne platforms?
10:52Because that would actually change the nature of warfare and reduce costs,
10:57you know, compared to all those expensive precision-guided munition,
11:00air-to-air, air-to-ground, air-to-sea.
11:03Would that be the real game changer, sir?
11:06Actually, Durga started as an airborne platform to be put on a large aeroplane.
11:12But, see, as far as costing is concerned, yes, airborne platform is a good answer.
11:16But whether costing is concerned, I think the least expensive, Gaurav,
11:21will be to put it on a vehicle like we are seeing on the screen as well as behind me.
11:25There is another very important thing I want to 30 seconds cover,
11:28is this particular weapon, Gaurav, can be the only probably solution against an incoming hypersonic missile.
11:37Today, we don't have an anti-hypersonic missile which can travel faster than 5 mark.
11:43Hypersonic is anything above 5 mark.
11:45We don't have an anti-missile missile which can travel faster than 5 mark
11:49to take out an incoming hypersonic weapon.
11:52And this probably is something that we need to work on to, you know,
11:57quickly fill that gap of hypersonic weapon being, you know,
12:02today like a Brahmastar where you have no answer to.
12:05And, of course, swamp drones and other drones that we are going to come in.
12:10See, we even looked at, toyed on the idea of a closed-in weapon system like you have it on a ship
12:16where you have these phalanx guns firing at a very high rate of fire,
12:21taking out incoming drone.
12:23But that is possible only probably to a cruise missile,
12:27you know, CJ-10 kind of missiles that is coming towards us.
12:31What about swamp drones?
12:32Which, again, is a major agenda as far as DRDO is concerned.
12:37Absolutely, sir.
12:37Let me also bring in Captain Sharma into this conversation
12:39because given the successful test of the DEW weapon, sir,
12:44once scaled up, you know, just as Group Captain Vinod was mentioning,
12:49can they evolve to deal with this threat of the hypersonic missile
12:54and advanced swamp drones?
12:56Because there's nothing to take on a hypersonic missile
12:59and incoming in current time, sir.
13:02Hi, Gaurav.
13:03Good evening.
13:04And good evening to all your viewers on Battlecry.
13:07They have already covered it.
13:10But I will tell you the naval aspect of it.
13:13First of all, we are the fifth nation who have now got this technology.
13:17And I must inform our audience that one gun has already been installed
13:22by the U.S. Navy on these ships.
13:24And that is having a power of 30 kilowatt.
13:27They are upscaling it to around 120 kilowatts.
13:31Now, if you see a scenario, first of all, in open seas, there will be a platform,
13:38whether it is the LRMR, that is a surveillance aircraft,
13:41or there is a ship which has launched a missile, or there is a platform which is launching these
13:48swamp drones or standalone drones.
13:51So now, if we have a platform which can detect, and we have solid capacity to do it,
13:58and we have our assets in place, so if we detect it, it is only a moment of seconds.
14:06It's a matter of seconds that it will be acquired, and the directed energy will be attacking it,
14:13targeting it, and it will take not more than 30 seconds, provided we have that kind of energy.
14:18So the test has been done of 30 kilowatts, but in the times to come, and our R&D is there,
14:25and I am privy to a lot of things which are happening, that this will be upgraded,
14:29and our stabilization factor miniaturizing the gun, the laser gun.
14:36Now, all this is a matter of time that they will be installed,
14:40and as Vinod said, Augustine said, that we have that Palance Khan 630s,
14:48a lot of countermeasures are there, but there comes the problem of ammunition,
14:52and which costs hell of a lot.
14:54But if we have this DEW, if DEW is available on the ships,
14:59let me tell you this threat of drones, for example, what we are facing from the Uthis,
15:05this will be neutralized the moment it is detected.
15:08And it will be detected because our sensors today are so advanced,
15:13that nothing can go unnoticed.
15:16The problem always was how to address the problem.
15:19Neutralize it.
15:20Now, once this DEW, directed energy weapon comes,
15:25it will be, and Nagorov, it is at the speed of light.
15:28It is only a matter of detection.
15:31Once detected, acquired, it's gone.
15:33By the time we are talking, it's gone.
15:34But the kind of energy that's required, and for that sustained cost,
15:38would you require something like a small nuclear reactor
15:41on board a large aircraft carrier,
15:44or is that possible even otherwise?
15:48Group Captain Vinod, General Sharma, would either of you want to take it one by one?
15:51Group Captain Vinod, on board an aircraft carrier,
15:54what would you require for that kind of energy?
15:57So you will need some captive power supply that can give that kind of wattage.
16:01You see, laser is nothing but concentrated light.
16:06And the amount of light that you can concentrate in a particular direction
16:10and keep it aimed.
16:12Zorov, keeping it aimed, like you saw it on the video also,
16:15keeping it aimed is, again, a very big technology by itself.
16:20So you have to have very high precision gyros maintaining,
16:24and the tracking device maintaining the laser on the target,
16:28which, as I can see it on the video,
16:33you get to refine it even better than what I'm seeing it on the screen.
16:39So that and the energy that you can generate,
16:45which can be captive, which can even be a battery for all you know.
16:51So this kind of energy...
16:53It has to be locked.
16:56Locked and loaded.
16:59Yeah, go on, sir. Complete your point.
17:01Yeah, and also, Gaurav, we can even look at capacitors to,
17:06large electrolytic capacitors to hold such energy,
17:08to immediately give it out in a burst.
17:11So it is more like the wattage that it can handle,
17:15and the technology to keep it aimed.
17:18Over to you.
17:18Okay.
17:19General Sharma, once India masters this art,
17:23would the focus then automatically shift
17:25to destroying the target at longer ranges,
17:28use more lethal power?
17:29And when India possesses this kind of power,
17:32even the adversary would think twice
17:34before launching against us anyway.
17:36I'm told all of you don't even consider Pakistan
17:39as part of the threat matrix anymore.
17:41Is that then restricted to the threat that we face
17:44on our northern borders vis-a-vis China?
17:46So firstly, let's not push away Pakistan
17:51out of our thinking process,
17:53because they're using the drones
17:54as the Chinese are giving it to them.
17:57And, you know, one of the drones destroyed
17:59by one of these laser weapons
18:01was a Chinese drone on the Pakistani border.
18:03So, you know, let's not forget,
18:05it happened in 16-4 zone,
18:06which you're aware,
18:07where one of these drones were.
18:09But, you know, I agree with the thought process
18:11that this technology is,
18:14I mean, just a demonstrator.
18:16We have miles to go.
18:17This is not a suitable thing for,
18:19say, a swarm of drones.
18:21It may not be suitable for loitering ammunition.
18:25And then, you know, see,
18:26it is a cat and mouse game
18:27where the drones will now start finding methods
18:30to avoid or deflect the laser energy coming to them
18:35or probably make stealth drones
18:38or things like that,
18:39which cannot be so easily detected.
18:41As it is, there are no communication signals
18:43in autonomous drones.
18:44There is no electronic warfare.
18:47There is no communication in the satellite coming.
18:49It's totally autonomous.
18:51So, you know, to detect itself
18:52will become a great task in future.
18:55So to say that we have reached the end of the thing,
18:58no, it's just the beginning.
19:00We're just commencing on this game.
19:01There is miles to go
19:03because the opposing technology
19:05will now mature into different levels altogether.
19:09Oh, absolutely.
19:09No, in fact, we mentioned this at technology demonstrator
19:12and we need to scale up in a big way.
19:15But respond, Captain Sharma,
19:16that detecting the threat on your radars
19:20or your sensors may just emerge to be a huge challenge
19:24and the response time will also be very restricted.
19:28And you agree that it's not perhaps the best weapon
19:30to take on a swarm drone?
19:33Swarm drone is a different ballgame,
19:34but the point is here in the Navy
19:36or in the open seas,
19:39for a swarm drone to be launched,
19:41there has to be a platform.
19:42So how can that be, you know, going undetected?
19:45You see, there are sequential things.
19:48If a ship is there,
19:50if it has to launch 50 drones,
19:52we will know it.
19:53And if a drone is coming from,
19:55say, 100 kilometers or 100 miles,
19:58then there is enough time to detect them.
20:00So, and it is only a matter of seconds.
20:02They will be addressed by various means,
20:07whether it is the close-in weapon systems,
20:09whether it is the phalanx guns,
20:11whether it is electronic jamming,
20:13ECM, ECCMs, and DEW.
20:16So, it will not be let go just like that.
20:19This is one thing.
20:20But once this comes in,
20:22this is such a game changer
20:24that I will not need ammunition
20:26by the thousands of, you know,
20:29creating a barrage or a wall.
20:31Then this will address.
20:33I will have seven, eight guns.
20:35They will take on.
20:35And it will only just,
20:36it requires 10 seconds,
20:38five seconds,
20:38two seconds for knocking down the drones.
20:42Because the amount of energy
20:43which is going to be directed,
20:45this is going to damage the drone.
20:47And then it becomes, you know,
20:49unserviceable.
20:50Unserviceable as far as the adversary is concerned.
20:52And that's exactly what they tried to do.
20:55They jammed the signals initially,
20:57made sure that the radar wasn't working.
21:00And then as you watch that other drone,
21:02it caught fire.
21:03Group can we note,
21:03Dr. Kamath also spoke of
21:05other Star War-like capabilities,
21:08developing other high-energy systems,
21:10including the electromagnetic pulse
21:12or the high-energy microwaves
21:14that are being sent.
21:15Would that make the adversary,
21:18one, as General Sharma pointed out,
21:20revise their tactics?
21:22It's a cat and mouse game.
21:23But are we keeping abreast now
21:26with what the adversary has?
21:27Or we have a long time to catch up with them?
21:31Good question, Gaurav.
21:32In fact, like I said,
21:33one and a half decades ago,
21:34our thought process was
21:36bang on on target.
21:37Tali, the weapon I talked about,
21:40kiloampere linear injector,
21:43is nothing but an electronic beam
21:45designed to fry the entire electronic board
21:48of anything.
21:50So, and today also we demonstrated,
21:53first the antenna was targeted
21:55and then the drone was targeted.
21:57So, and like Captain Sharma said,
22:01it is going to be a part of a larger system
22:03in which you will have detect, identify
22:06and destroy capability
22:08in which this particular thing
22:10is going to plug in
22:11to the destroy capability
22:13of detect and identify.
22:15So, detect, identify, destroy, or divert
22:17becomes the complete gamut
22:19of a defense system,
22:21including an air defense system.
22:22But also, Gaurav,
22:24look at this,
22:25its application in civilian shipping also.
22:28You know,
22:29especially against pirates.
22:31And pirates are now increasingly
22:33using drones
22:34against the civilian shipping.
22:36Now, you can have this fitted
22:37in the civilian ships
22:40along the sea lanes of communication
22:42and they can be probably
22:43well protected.
22:45Not only against aerial target,
22:46but also against the pirates.
22:48So, that's something...
22:49Very interesting.
22:49Yeah, absolutely.
22:51General Sharma,
22:52how soon in your appreciation
22:54before they're deployed at borders?
22:57You know,
22:57if we were to talk about
22:58the LC or the IB
22:59to take on
23:00because Pakistan is sending in
23:01a lot of drugs and weapons
23:03through the drones.
23:04Cost, very cost effective
23:06since they're very inexpensive
23:07and the DRDO is saying
23:09just at the cost
23:10of a couple of liters of fuel,
23:11you can take down a small drone.
23:14Can it be used to,
23:15let's say,
23:16take down an enemy bunker
23:17or a dhok
23:18where terrorists could be hiding?
23:19Using these weapons
23:20much cheaper
23:21than using ATGMs
23:23against certain targets?
23:26So, now you're approaching
23:29a different subject altogether.
23:30And that subject is
23:31how to absorb the technology.
23:33You know,
23:33what is happening is
23:34you remember
23:35this was a year
23:36of the technology absorption
23:38because
23:38you require specific manpower
23:40to handle a system
23:42which is additional
23:43to what system
23:44the air defense already has.
23:46And you know,
23:46when you say a range
23:47which is 5 kilometers,
23:48then 5 kilometers
23:49is on the line
23:50of actual control
23:51as you're aware
23:51is right at the front.
23:54So, you can't have
23:55an air defense system.
23:56Air defense is deployed
23:57in a different manner
23:58altogether.
23:59Now, you have to
23:59decentralize all these systems
24:01down to the vanguard.
24:04Because, you know,
24:05you just cannot say
24:05even if you say
24:06that you have
24:07a 300 kb lizard
24:10times to come
24:1110 kilometer range
24:12or something,
24:13it still has to go
24:14to the vanguard.
24:15And who is the man
24:16who should do this?
24:17The man is actually
24:18manning something else.
24:19So, there has to be
24:21technology absorption.
24:23Absorption.
24:23That's a very pertinent
24:26point you raise, sir.
24:28I've unfortunately
24:29run out of time
24:29on this part of the show.
24:30But in the days
24:31and weeks ahead,
24:32this Star Wars technology
24:34and it's very exciting.
24:35It's inexpensive
24:36compared to all
24:37those expensive missiles
24:38and rockets
24:40that you may need to buy.
24:41But technology absorption
24:43will remain a challenge.
24:45But then,
24:45in this changing world
24:46with much smarter soldiers
24:47out there in the field,
24:49this truly promises
24:51to be a game changer.
24:52A story we'll be tracking
24:53closely, that is all
24:54I have for you
24:54on this Battle Cry special
24:56to all my guests.
24:57Many thanks for joining me.