This week on the RealTrending podcast, Tracey traveled to the Illinois REALTORS’ REengage Winter Conference to sit down with Illinois REALTORS CEO Jeff Baker and President Tommy Choi in person!
The three discuss the current challenges in the housing market, including low inventory and rising interest rates. They also talk all about the value of being a real estate professional, being a part of an association, and what is necessary for the future of associations as far as serving their members’ needs.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
Education and resources from associations are crucial for industry success.
Leveraging technology and AI can enhance efficiency and effectiveness.
Reputation is always built during challenging market conditions.
Real estate agents must position themselves as trusted advisors.
The future of real estate will be shaped by younger generations.
The three discuss the current challenges in the housing market, including low inventory and rising interest rates. They also talk all about the value of being a real estate professional, being a part of an association, and what is necessary for the future of associations as far as serving their members’ needs.
Here’s what you’ll learn:
Education and resources from associations are crucial for industry success.
Leveraging technology and AI can enhance efficiency and effectiveness.
Reputation is always built during challenging market conditions.
Real estate agents must position themselves as trusted advisors.
The future of real estate will be shaped by younger generations.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Value is the buzzword of the season, and that is no truer for associations than it is for
00:07real estate companies.
00:09Today I spoke with Illinois Realtors CEO Jeff Baker and Illinois Realtors President, 2025
00:17President Tommy Choi.
00:18He is also a team leader with Weinberg Choi with Keller Williams One Chicago and runs
00:25a super successful team.
00:27And we talked all about value as a real estate professional, value as association, and what
00:33is necessary for the future of associations as far as serving their members.
00:39So enjoy the podcast.
00:42So Jeff and Tommy, thank you so much for joining the Real Trending Podcast.
00:48Thanks for having us.
00:49Yeah.
00:50Yeah.
00:51We are just going to go right into it.
00:52And we're going to start with kind of a little bit of the housing market.
00:54And obviously we've got inventory challenges.
00:57We've got interest rate challenges.
00:58We've got a new administration and a lot is happening in the market right now.
01:03So what are you, and I guess I'll start with Jeff because I want to talk about what you're
01:08kind of advising your members and being resilient through all different types of markets actually.
01:15Yeah.
01:16That's something that we have had to work on over the years through all different kinds
01:21of markets going all the way back, for example, the Great Recession, the recovery period that
01:27came after that.
01:28So we are constantly evolving in the education space, the types of information and communications
01:35that we're putting out there to make sure that the realtor members are as prepared as
01:40possible for whatever the market conditions are.
01:43So low inventory, high demand or vice versa.
01:48And so we constantly are evaluating the types of communication that we put out there and
01:53then urging the realtor members to stay on top of it so that they are prepared in advance
01:58for whatever comes down the pipe.
02:00Yeah.
02:01Now there's a lot coming down, it looks like.
02:02So Tommy, you're actively in the business as the president of the association.
02:08So tell me a little bit about what you're looking at and how you're preparing your business
02:13moving forward.
02:14You know what?
02:15I follow the data, right?
02:17I always say men lie, women lie, politicians lie, numbers never lie.
02:21There's such great resources, especially with the NAR, the Home Buyer Seller Profile Guide.
02:27If you look at that, one of my favorite things I always scroll to, two favorite data points
02:31I look at.
02:32One, if you look at how many realtors, the consumer, buyers and sellers interviewed,
02:41it's like 80% have interviewed only one agent, right?
02:46And then when you look at the repeat referral side of things, when they ask a buyer, how
02:53satisfied were you working with your realtor and would you use them again?
02:56It's like a resounding like 80% plus.
02:59But then when they interview sellers, hey, did you work with the same realtor?
03:03It's only like 16, 18%, right?
03:05So it comes down to speed to lead and staying top of mind.
03:10That's how you stay resilient and that's recession proof.
03:13And so for us, it's constantly what are you doing to do that, stay top of mind, be that
03:20one that they're going to interview, right?
03:23And make sure that we're not in that 16% that they go with a different person.
03:28And that comes down to becoming what I think is you have to be a modern real estate agent.
03:31And what that means for me is blending the offline traditional side of business development
03:40with the online digital side.
03:42You have to mesh the two, right?
03:43It's not about being one or the other, right?
03:47I always say there's like 25-year-old life gurus now that are selling $100 courses on
03:51how to go viral in real estate.
03:53You have to do both in order to really win and to really maximize and stay top of mind.
03:59Where I'm seeing realtors win and stay resilient is positioning themselves as the chief economists
04:07for their database, where they're bringing value and education, especially with how much
04:13information there is and how much bad information there is, really providing context to it.
04:18You win every day.
04:19It doesn't matter how high or low interest rates are, how much inventory, how little
04:23inventory, you're still going to gain that market share.
04:25And I think that's really important to stay resilient right now as an active realtor.
04:29Yeah, I think that's so important.
04:31I think that realtors hear that constantly, but they don't always know how to really implement
04:37that.
04:38And it's all about relationships, right?
04:40That's what the whole business is.
04:41So when you think about it that way, I think it really helps that resiliency as well because
04:47you're focusing on your database, you're focusing on the people you know, the people you've
04:50done business with, and you're keeping top of mind for them as well.
04:56So when the market explodes, they're all coming to you.
05:00You're the first to harvest.
05:02That's right.
05:03A really key stat I think every real estate agent should be focusing on is roughly they
05:08say about 16.67% is what you should be converting your database.
05:14So for every 600 people you properly market to, that equates 100 deals.
05:20And so the delta between where you were yesterday and where you're trying to get to goal-wise,
05:26it's just how many more people do you have to meet, to your point, right?
05:29And so that's ultimately it.
05:30And that has nothing to do with the actual houses.
05:32It's about how many relationships you can curate and cultivate.
05:35Yeah.
05:36And Jeff is the CEO of Illinois Realtors.
05:39How are you kind of preparing the association in general for all the changes that have happened
05:46since the settlement and everything that's going on?
05:49I know you did a lot of education for members.
05:52So moving forward, what do you see as the kind of the future of the association?
05:57Yeah, I think just kind of dovetailing off of what we were just talking about, the future
06:03is providing as much information and tools and resources to the members as possible so
06:10that they are well-suited to do exactly what we're talking about, is be a position to capitalize
06:16on the market, whatever the market conditions are.
06:19So if it is a high-demand, low-supply market or vice versa, you can rely on your association
06:26going forward to have all of the educational tools, whether that is digital marketing,
06:31whether it is customer relations, whether it's database management, you can look at
06:37your association to provide you those tools and resources to improve yourself and improve
06:43your business and get yourself ready to capitalize.
06:47So yes, as you mentioned, the NAR settlement, we're now in, I think, roughly 10 months past
06:55the announcement and we're effectively 10 months into our campaign of educating members
07:01on what that means, how it's affecting their business, but really what it is is going to
07:05be a multi-year educational effort, a multi-year effort of bringing tools and resources directly
07:13to the members.
07:14As we sit here and have this conversation today, we're at our winter conference where
07:17we're going to have two days straight of nothing but information on how to improve your business
07:24in a market like this in a setting or context post-settlement.
07:30So that's the role of the association going forward.
07:32That's our future.
07:33Yeah.
07:34And are you seeing, I guess I'll take this to Tommy, are you seeing any challenges in
07:39speaking to buyers and sellers about the settlement?
07:44Are they asking about it?
07:45I know you've had to rework how you're approaching them and how you're doing business with them.
07:51How has it been for you and the people that work with you?
07:55That's a great question.
07:56You know, what I'll say is this is the first time in my last 18 years in this industry
08:01and doing this at a very high level, having a top 10 team in Chicago, where in the past
08:07when there's real estate stuff in the headlines, consumers really didn't pay attention.
08:12Since the settlement announcement through the end of last year, right, I personally
08:17went on about 160 listing appointments and there was never one listing appointment where
08:24the homeowner didn't bring this up.
08:26So they're very informed.
08:29However, where I think success is achieved is asking first, well, tell me, what do you
08:37know about what's going on?
08:40Because what I found is the majority really have no clue.
08:44And they're asking something about commissions.
08:46They've seen the headline.
08:48Exactly.
08:49Yeah.
08:50They don't read behind the headline, beyond the headline.
08:51And so it's really just being the truth and pointing out the facts.
08:57And honestly, they understand.
09:01They see the value we provide.
09:03It makes sense.
09:05They understand why things are the way they are and how we present our business.
09:12Things haven't really changed from the consumer side of pushing back from my experience.
09:17Yeah.
09:19You know, value is the big buzzword right now, right?
09:21I mean, it's about showing your value as an association, as a realtor, you know, figuring
09:28out how you can really do that.
09:30Because I feel like in the past, agents have handled all the problems behind the scenes
09:35because they don't want to bother their buyers and sellers about them.
09:38And now it's not about bragging about everything you've done, but showing them, here are the
09:43things that I've done to get this transaction closed.
09:46And for the association, it's getting that communication out.
09:50And that's tough.
09:51Coming from an association background, I know how tough that is.
09:55So, yeah.
09:57So what are some, are you looking at different methods?
09:59Are you, you know, talk to me from the association standpoint, how you're communicating the value
10:05that you're providing to your members?
10:06Yeah.
10:07So interesting.
10:08That is, you know, when we use that buzzword value in the association context, information
10:15and connection is really what it comes down to because, you know, we can talk all day
10:19about, you know, advocacy, which is something that's really important that we do.
10:22And it's hard for anybody else to replicate education.
10:26But really what it comes down to is, you know, organizing information and then communicating
10:33that and getting it into the members' hands.
10:35So one of the things that we have invested heavily in over the course of the last couple
10:39of years and that we see continuing to grow is our presence in digital media.
10:45That is where, you know, if you look at almost any survey or any study, as Tommy said before,
10:50the numbers don't lie.
10:51Over 50% of, you know, millennials in Gen Z are getting all of their news or all of
10:57their information from social media.
10:59And so looking at these population groups as the next buyers, we have to meet them where
11:07they're at.
11:08And so that's what we're investing a lot in in terms of how do we get through all of
11:13the noise.
11:14You know, in the old days, it might have been email, and now we all can look at our inboxes
11:17and say, no, that's the last thing I want is another email, and I'm just not going to
11:22read it.
11:23So trying to find new, innovative ways to connect with the members, I think it comes
11:28down to events like the one that we're hosting this week and the ones that we host throughout
11:32the year is making them even more impactful.
11:35You know, we're sitting here talking about a tough market.
11:41And so as an association, I have to convince you to walk away from that.
11:45Walk away from that business for a day to come spend it with me and the association.
11:50And so I need to make this programming as impactful as possible.
11:53I need you to walk out of a day or two of conference having learned as much as possible.
11:58So whether it's the digital media space, whether it's the events, it's putting as much resource
12:05and thought into high impact communications and getting that organized information into
12:10the hands of the members as quickly as possible.
12:12Yeah.
12:13And getting ready for whatever the new TikTok will be.
12:16Exactly.
12:17You know, the interesting thing is that word value, that is the golden thread that is sewn
12:24through not just as a real estate agent to the consumer, but association to the realtor.
12:31Associations are being challenged by realtor members on what the value that they present.
12:36And consumers are challenging realtors every day on what our value is in a transaction.
12:42So it's a very unique space where and I think a very exciting time where everyone's on the
12:46same page and we're just trying to communicate and demonstrate that as best as we can.
12:50Yeah.
12:51Yeah.
12:52I mean, it really is an interesting time in the industry because you've got that double
12:55whammy of like, you know, the lawsuits plus the market.
12:58And, you know, looking at Logan's forecast, which he'll be speaking here, you know, he's
13:05slightly optimistic that it will definitely be a better market this coming year.
13:10So that's the good news.
13:13So Tommy, you are the 100th president of Illinois Realtors and a history making leader.
13:19So tell me a little bit about some of the kind of initiatives that you're planning to
13:24bring to the Realtor Association to help the members.
13:27You know, that's such a great question.
13:28It's something that leading up to this and even today, people always ask, like, you know,
13:33so what do you want to do?
13:35And this might be unpopular opinion, but I think that having themes and ideas, you know,
13:43it's either indicator of a lot of ego or a weak association.
13:47You know, for us, you know, I feel that Illinois Realtors is such a strong association.
13:55My job is to just continue to be an advocate, an ambassador for it and amplify the things
14:00that we're doing well.
14:02Now, what's different and what I bring that's different is my lived experience, right?
14:07I have a different connection with members that maybe didn't have the connection past
14:12presidents, right?
14:13And that's not a knock to past presidents.
14:14It's just where does that connection get made?
14:18And then how does that story of value get told?
14:20So, you know, I always say, you know, success lives on the other side of ego.
14:24And, you know, for me, having a theme and tchotchkes to give out, that really doesn't
14:28measure anything.
14:30It's just being able to continue to amplify all the great work that we're doing at, you
14:35know, a local level and continuing that torch gets passed to the next leaders.
14:40Yeah.
14:41Yeah.
14:42That's great.
14:43For us writers, we like themes because that helps us with designing magazines and things
14:51like that.
14:53But I totally understand.
14:56And so what about what are the initiatives that you're really focusing on?
14:59Is there any specific advocacy?
15:02I know that you recently were working on defeating a transfer tax that you were able to do.
15:09Yes.
15:10So we have a very extensive local governmental affairs operation.
15:15Just speaking specifically to the transfer tax proposal that was in Chicago earlier in
15:202020 or last year.
15:22And so we will continue to invest heavily in our local governmental affairs operations.
15:29On the advocacy side of things, we will continue to fight ideas that, you know, either promote
15:35or proliferate discrimination.
15:38Crime-free housing is something that we are working on every single day at the local level
15:44to put an end to those types of discrimination.
15:47As Tommy mentioned, you know, we may not have specific, you know, single year themes,
15:52but the way Illinois Realtors operates and the way that our leadership has really kind
15:56of rallied around is that we have initiatives that are multi-year efforts.
16:03And so each incoming president kind of picks up that torch and tries to, you know, champion
16:08what we're working on.
16:09One of those that we've been working on now for several years is zoning reform.
16:14And so we have made a lot of progress with the Illinois governor's office, and we actually
16:19will see legislation introduced in this spring General Assembly session that addresses zoning
16:24reform.
16:26We've made a lot of progress with the governor's office and with state legislators in talking
16:30about how do we address inventory in a smart but also expedient way.
16:36We all know that we can't snap our fingers and just build a house.
16:40So we do have a lot of economic growth throughout Illinois.
16:45Doesn't get written about all too often, but it is there.
16:48And so we are trying to look at ways to incentivize rethinking the starter home in Illinois and
16:55making Illinois a leader in the country on what starter homes really look like and basing
17:00it around those economic growth centers throughout the state.
17:04And so, like I said, we've worked with a lot of legislators.
17:06We'll see legislation to that effect this coming spring.
17:11And Tommy really is just our champion and picked up that torch, like I said, to help
17:17move that initiative forward.
17:18Yeah, that leadership consistency is really very key.
17:21Yeah.
17:22Yeah.
17:23Do you have anything to add?
17:24No.
17:25I mean, it's...
17:26You know what?
17:27I always say fancy fails and simple scales.
17:29And we do simple, the basics at a very high level.
17:34And so it's like I'm getting handed not the same playbook, right?
17:40It's always evolving.
17:41But I'm a different type of athlete on the field, so I might be able to run different
17:46plays better, whereas the next president will do something different.
17:49So I think that's the great thing about this team approach and having that synergy.
17:53So in your business, you've been uber successful.
17:57So let's talk a little bit about that.
18:01Share with my audience, which is really agents, team leaders, brokers, real estate leaders,
18:07what in your opinion is that secret sauce?
18:10What's the thing that really kind of catapulted your business?
18:14Yeah.
18:15I mean, it's consistency.
18:17It's really just doing the boring things at a consistent level.
18:22I always say things don't get easier.
18:25And a lot of times I hear, well, once summer ends and kids are back in school, I'll have
18:30more time.
18:31I can do this.
18:32Or once the interest rates drop, it'll be easier to do this.
18:36We'll get more inventory.
18:38No.
18:39Something difficult will come, right?
18:41I think ultimately consistency is doing the hard things better.
18:46And over time, when you can continue to do time on task, you see those results.
18:51And like I said, it all comes down to relationship building, right?
18:56Being that chief economist.
18:57And right now more than ever, it's so important, especially in my opinion, to be positioning
19:04yourself and leveraging content marketing, right?
19:09All the data information that's out there, all the great information that's on Housing
19:11Wire.
19:12You like how I did that?
19:13I like how you did that.
19:15And being able to transfer that knowledge to consumers.
19:18And you only do that by getting face to face, getting voice to voice, and screen to screen.
19:22And so that's how we're able to replicate our success year over year.
19:27And there's no yo-yo effect to it because we control where our destiny is.
19:30Yeah.
19:31And are you...
19:33We're looking at...
19:34At Housing Wire, we're looking at doing a huge commission compression study.
19:40Hopefully maybe not compression.
19:42But brokers, team leaders are all dealing with that.
19:45Team leaders less so because they tend to generate leads.
19:49So because of that, they're more profitable than brokerages.
19:55Where do you see the most opportunity in the business in the coming year?
20:00That's a great question.
20:01Once again, as a data nerd, I'll speak to the Midwest, right?
20:05Last year, 55% of homebuyers in the Midwest were under the age of 36.
20:13So millennials, that's not anything new, right?
20:16People are listening like, duh, right?
20:17But it's so important, right?
20:2036 is what I'm sure some old white guy in Washington DC coined as prime household age.
20:27In the next two years, we're going to see the largest population of 36-year-olds, okay?
20:33That is our opportunity.
20:35And how you understand and reverse engineer how these millennials...
20:40Believe it or not, I'm the oldest millennial, I'm 43.
20:42I can still tag that on.
20:43My kids roll their eyes at me when I say that.
20:46But you have to reverse engineer and study that audience, right?
20:51Those 36-year-olds today that are going to be the biggest home buying pool in two years,
20:56when they're hungry, they push a button on their phone and food shows up at their door.
21:00When they need to get somewhere, they push a button on their phone and Uber shows up.
21:03And if it takes longer than three minutes, they cancel to get a faster one.
21:06So right now, if you as an advisor, real estate agent, aren't putting yourself out there and
21:13adapting to how that big buyer pool and seller pool have grown up, you're going to lose.
21:20Also, if sellers don't...
21:23Because it's a low inventory market, they just get lazy and they think, oh, I'll just
21:27put on the market and just call for an offer deadline.
21:30If their home doesn't look like the millennial buyer's Pinterest board, they're not going
21:35to give you top dollar.
21:36They don't want to do work.
21:37Not because they don't know how to do it, because once again, when they're hungry, they
21:40hit a button 15 minutes later, their sandwich shows up at the door.
21:43They want to be able to move in and unpack it and enjoy.
21:47If you're not paying attention to that group that's only continuing to grow, you're going
21:52to be left behind.
21:53Yeah, absolutely.
21:54There's something that Tommy mentioned, I think is a really important takeaway for members,
22:00realtors going forward too, is to not be complacent with the high demand that we've gotten used
22:07to seeing over the last few years.
22:09We can complain about inventory not matching that, but in that I want it now generation,
22:15in the instant gratification generation, you are starting to see home ownership and the
22:24sentiment towards home ownership start to get chipped away.
22:27That's another element of the business and another element that the industry has to focus
22:31on is reminding everybody or perhaps even re-educating everybody on the benefits of
22:36home ownership, why housing stability via home ownership is what is best for communities
22:42and cities, schools, safe streets, economic opportunity, all of the things that come with
22:49it.
22:50I think that that's something that's really important for the members, for everyone within
22:54the industry to remember too going forward is don't be complacent with this high demand
22:58that we see right now.
22:59That may not be around forever.
23:01We can already start to see the effects of other groups and other interests starting
23:07to move people away from home ownership.
23:09We have to stay diligent on that subject as well.
23:13Are either of you using any AI or generative AI in the association, the business?
23:19Tom, do you want to start?
23:22Every single day.
23:23I think it's so important.
23:24I always tell agents, AI will not replace us in our role in the real estate transaction,
23:31but an agent that does use AI at a high level will replace you.
23:36It's not just efficiencies, but the big L word that gets thrown around in our industry,
23:41leverage.
23:42A lot of people just think of leverage as capital or human capital, but technology is
23:49the greatest leverage because ChatGPT and Canva, they don't ask for days off.
23:55There's no sick days.
23:56It's constantly working, and especially when you talk about potential studies of commission
24:02compression, the name of the game moving forward, if we start to see that, it's going to be
24:07as an agent and a business owner, how do you continue to stay and run profitable?
24:12A lot of that's going to come down to efficiencies, and AI, I think, is one of the greatest tools
24:16that allows you just constant leverage and allow you to focus on the things that you
24:21should be.
24:22Are you using it as back office at all?
24:24Are you doing more marketing and client acquisition with it?
24:32All of the above.
24:33Right now, we're using AI to live in our database and make sure that some of the people that
24:40we're just like, when I just feel like, I don't want to make this extra call, they're
24:45touching them for us, reaching out to them.
24:49We're using that as far as also, when I talked about speed to lead, having chatbots, making
24:56sure that they're getting that touchpoint.
24:59We're going to start looking into AI call centers right now too, because the voice side
25:05of things is scary how good that is right now.
25:09Once again, being able to use those efficiencies, and then back of the office, streamlining
25:14all of our processes using artificial intelligence.
25:19It's just the future.
25:20Okay.
25:21Jeff, what about association?
25:22Yeah.
25:23We're embracing it and trying to learn as much as we can about it and the different
25:29ways that we can use it where we've already started to incorporate it.
25:33One of the most obvious ways is through marketing and communication.
25:37We see it similar to what Tommy just said, is it's a force multiplier.
25:40My head count's not going to go down as a result of AI, but what that AI and those tools
25:45are going to do is make all of my other human product even better.
25:51Content creation, marketing pieces, whether it's in the writing or in the video production
25:58side of things, we've already started to fold that in and incorporate it in.
26:02Then through some of our back office software programs and that sort of thing, there's AI
26:06built into that to make sure that everything is as efficient or error correction is as
26:13efficient as possible.
26:15Some of that is starting to get folded in in the back office side, but on the front
26:18end, it's definitely an asset that everyone should be embracing, especially on communication.
26:24Yeah.
26:25I've used it to plan trip itineraries.
26:27When we went to Paris, I plugged in everything I wanted to do and made up an itinerary for
26:32it.
26:33How was the trip?
26:34Yes.
26:35It was great.
26:36We adjusted it, but yeah, it was perfect.
26:37That's good.
26:38Yeah.
26:39Yeah.
26:40My final question to both of you is kind of a little bit more personal.
26:42It could be professional, but I'll start with Jeff.
26:46Your aha moment, it could be in your personal life, it could be your professional life,
26:50but something that really kind of triggered a change or you to do something a little different.
26:59I think I can specifically remember early on in this position that I'm in now leading
27:08the association where it's really easy to think that this trade association focuses
27:16specifically on what can we do for the realtor members.
27:19That's true.
27:20We do, obviously, that is one of our number one priorities.
27:24When you stop and think about, but why do we do that and what is the ultimate benefit?
27:31It's not the policies we fight for, the educational programs, it's not to put an extra dollar
27:36in a realtor's pocket.
27:38Every single thing that we do, whether it's the education of individual realtors or advocacy
27:43and initiatives that I fight for at the state capitol, benefits everyone that lives in the
27:48state of Illinois.
27:49There's not a single person in the state of Illinois who has not benefited from the work
27:53of the realtor associations.
27:55If you rent or you're a landlord, you've bought a home, you've sold a home, you bought a business
28:00property, you have benefited from the work that we've done.
28:05Once you stop and realize that that is the magnitude of what these associations can do
28:10and have been doing for decades, it just brings a whole nother layer of meaning and worth
28:18to what we do every single day.
28:20Ever since, I think when I stepped into this position and I had that moment of realization
28:24of how deep and far our reach is, that's what's driven me for the last several years.
28:33Every single day when you wake up to know that everyone in the state is going to benefit
28:38from the work that we do.
28:39I think that that's just something that was really important, not just for me to realize,
28:44but all the members as well.
28:45Yeah, that's a great one.
28:47Tommy?
28:48Man, I think about 2010, 11, those years in the last recession.
28:58At that time, I remember just being fearful and scaling back on certain things just from
29:05a resources standpoint, just from a mental weight standpoint.
29:11I also saw how other agents conducted themselves, very dog-eat-dog.
29:18Something when the dust settled and in reflection when I look back, I've learned really that
29:25equity is made in up markets and reputation is made in down markets.
29:29That was such a great aha that's prepared us for all the ups and downs, the cyclical
29:34seasons of real estate to really focus on foundationing our reputation because we know
29:39the revenue will happen.
29:40At the time, when you see people leaving, you start to get a little bit nervous of like,
29:46oh my gosh, am I going to be the next person?
29:48I've just embraced that really, quitters make space for earners.
29:53I never want to see people leave, but when people see that and they start to get fearful,
29:57I say, no, this is an opportunity for you.
29:59A lot of the times, what I learned from that is the two R's that I always say that really
30:07will catapult you in those times.
30:09Some might say we're in that right now is risk and revenue.
30:14Being risk adverse and embracing, being able to take a chance, really ultimately betting
30:18on yourself and having the resources, revenue to invest, to double down on certain things
30:24that you know are going to work, but not let the market drive you away from it.
30:30For me, especially when we got into the season, we saw it again, people started to scale back
30:34on marketing.
30:35For us, we went all in on that and we're starting to see the results from that.
30:40I think that understanding that reputation is made in these markets when it gets challenging
30:46and things get tough.
30:47Yeah, and I would add another R to that and that's what we talked about earlier which
30:52is relationships.
30:53Yes.
30:54We've done studies on brokers who grew through the Great Recession and one of the things
30:59that all of them did was they got closer to their agents.
31:04A lot of them were able to expand during that time as well and came out on top, so yeah,
31:10great stuff.
31:11Well, thank you so much for joining The Real Trending Podcast.
31:14It has been a pleasure having both of you.
31:17Thanks for having us.
31:18Thanks for having us.