Tehreek-e-Insaf Kis Se Mazakraat Chahti Hai ? Tajzia Karon Ne Bata Diya
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00:00 I don't know what PTI wants, but keeping in mind Imran Khan's thoughts, we can project
00:09 what is possible.
00:11 At this time, PTI or Imran Khan will not have any interest in correcting the system, because
00:16 they do not have a stake in this system as they want.
00:19 Now, if you look at what suits Imran Khan personally, he knows that he is in jail and
00:26 his position is increasing.
00:30 By doing nothing, by just staying in jail, there is a mystery and an aura that builds
00:37 when you are not in front of the eyes.
00:40 They have no responsibility, they have nothing to do, they just have to wait.
00:45 And in that waiting, other people are now becoming helpless.
00:50 Dialogue suits those for whom this system is important.
00:56 The government knows that if stability comes, their position will improve.
01:00 And until there is no accommodation from Imran Khan or Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf, that
01:05 stability will not come in a way that...
01:07 But what can the government give to Imran Khan?
01:10 What can Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf offer?
01:12 They cannot say that come and make a judicial commission on elections.
01:16 Nor can they give a judicial commission on 9th May.
01:20 Because there will be two big points whenever Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf will talk to the government.
01:24 That first, they should conduct an election audit.
01:26 Or open 6-8 holes, as they say before, open 4, open 4, open 6.
01:29 And yes, we also know that if the holes are opened, then the government is gone.
01:32 So what can the government offer to Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf at this time?
01:36 The government, I think, cannot offer anything to Imran Khan.
01:41 What Imran Khan wants, he cannot get.
01:45 And they cannot give anything that the establishment wants.
01:51 So I think, my understanding is that at this time, positions have entrenched from both sides.
01:57 And it is loose, not win-win.
02:00 Now if there is any other miracle, that some kind of a momentum is created from somewhere,
02:05 but neither Imran Khan is being negotiated at this time, nor is the establishment being negotiated.
02:11 The government is being negotiated, but the government is not in 3rd nor in 13th.
02:14 But the government is also being negotiated, but the government is only being negotiated.
02:19 Yes, let's engage them somehow, put them in a process.
02:22 And if the purpose of the negotiations is defined, from the point of view of Tariq-e-Insaf,
02:27 our purpose is this, then it becomes easier to say who to negotiate with.
02:30 If you say like this, then this realization has come, that the role of the establishment should end with politics.
02:35 His negotiations are something else.
02:38 We have to come into power, his negotiations and his audience are something else.
02:41 Whenever you say that we don't have to talk to the political parties, we only have to talk to the establishment,
02:45 then that talk can only come into power.
02:47 That is for the betterment of the system.
02:49 That is why I said that if you want to do this, then you have to go somewhere.
02:52 If you want to talk for the betterment of the system, that every institution should be in its own circle,
02:55 then the politicians are the first stakeholders, then you can include other stakeholders in it.
02:59 And you are absolutely right, I can't see the negotiations happening, there are two reasons for that.
03:03 One is that no one is ready to step back from their position.
03:06 From there, it is said to apologize on 9th May, here it is said to return our mandate and end the cases.
03:11 So how do you move forward?
03:13 Will you give, after which these dialogues will start?
03:16 There will be negotiations.
03:17 One is that the negotiations will start, after which what will be the negotiations?
03:20 Here the preconditions are such that on the basis of which it seems that the negotiations will not start.
03:23 Gaukh Fasan sir said that there are no preconditions, but you will sit on the table of negotiations,
03:27 the first conversation will be that sir, this is our demand.
03:30 Yesterday Ali Muhammad Khan sir said in the parliament that we will talk to the politicians,
03:33 but first release Imran Khan, release other people,
03:36 okay, we will talk about the mandate later, but there will be some preconditions,
03:39 otherwise how will you trust?
03:41 The government also knows the meaning of releasing Imran Khan.
03:44 Then what will be left?
03:45 That Imran Khan will leave from there, Pakistan will leave from here,
03:47 Imran Khan sir did not even think that he should return our mandate and end our cases.
03:52 If he returns it as a precondition, then what will happen later?
03:54 Then everything will be over, then what will the discussion be about?
03:57 And second, I think Kashif sir, see in the past also there has been a debate on power balance,
04:03 what should be the power structure in Pakistan, there has been a lot of debate on this,
04:06 and mostly it is about institutions that institutions should not interfere in this,
04:10 but now this fight has become a fight of individuals.
04:14 When Imran Khan sir will target the head of the institutions,
04:17 then I think that the confrontation with the institutions can still be better somewhere,
04:22 the matters can be resolved there.
04:24 When it becomes a fight of individuals, then it becomes very difficult to resolve the issues on the table.
04:30 So I think that because of these two reasons, I do not see any dialogue in the near future,
04:34 no matter how many people talk.
04:36 There are three parties to this conflict, the political conflict,
04:40 and all three have nothing to give.
04:43 Neither the government can give anything, nor the establishment can give anything,
04:46 nor can Imran Khan offer anything.
04:48 If Imran Khan deals, his political will be a big loss.
04:53 If the government releases him, then I think that the decision will be taken by the government,
04:59 and Imran Khan will get it.
05:01 Then the government will not be able to make decisions,
05:03 because if you take a popular leader out, then they will decide what to do now,
05:08 or what message to give to the people.
05:10 Everyone knows this.
05:11 Then the dialogue, again, as I said, can be on which lines?
05:16 See, one of the biggest issues in this whole situation,
05:20 the biggest party is the people of Pakistan.
05:23 They do not feature anywhere.
05:24 They think that these three parties...
05:26 You cannot even do it in a discussion.
05:27 No, no, the issue is whose rights are there?
05:29 Who has the right to go?
05:31 The protection of rights will be done by a political party.
05:34 A political party will do it.
05:35 See, you cannot invest 22-25 crores in a discussion.
05:38 You cannot.
05:39 On their behalf, if you say that Imran Khan is the most acceptable at the moment,
05:42 they will say that for the people, for the people whose right to vote was violated,
05:47 for the people whose Chahdar and Char Diwali were violated,
05:50 but there will be a political front, not the people.
05:54 I am coming to that.
05:55 How do people become a party in that?
05:57 People become a party through the electoral process.
06:00 Will these people agree to the fact that we have to solve this issue through the electoral process?
06:05 Then you will argue the case of the main party and you will solve the case.
06:12 If you are not arguing their case, you have to take the power yourself.
06:15 You have to solve the case for yourself.
06:17 Then this issue will not be solved.
06:19 Because the issue is not about Imran Khan at the moment.
06:21 The issue has gone beyond Imran Khan.
06:23 There is a kind of resentment in the people.
06:25 The second thing is that they say that the issue will be solved by talking to these political parties.
06:30 If you talk to the establishment, then the issue will not be solved.
06:33 No. These political parties are those political parties
06:35 that the other party accuses that they have come with the help of the establishment.
06:39 They are sitting with 77 reserve seats.
06:43 It is a joke that someone else has to vote and they are sitting with 77 reserve seats.
06:50 How will they talk to you that we are returning your seats?
06:53 If there is a solution to this issue, then I think it cannot be done without the engagement of the establishment.
06:59 Because every party accuses this.
07:01 In 2018, the accusation was made.
07:03 If you bring the establishment in the middle,
07:05 then on one side you read the constitution and tell on the assembly floor that what is your job.
07:09 Then you make the same establishment a part of the political negotiations.
07:14 First decide whether they have anything to do with it or not.
07:17 Or you are saying that there is nothing to do with us, but there is something to do with solving my problems.
07:23 This is the meaning of this argument.
07:25 No. There is an argument in it that you have nothing to do with anyone.
07:28 You go back a little from this practice.
07:30 Let there be clean and transparent elections.
07:32 We say that there are clean and transparent elections.
07:34 They are always there.
07:35 But these politicians do not agree.
07:36 In 2018, the Noon League said that Mr. Khalid Maqloob has done this.
07:39 Now the PTI people put allegations.
07:42 So who are they complaining to?
07:45 Whenever they complain, you say that Imran Khan is saying that I have to talk to the establishment.
07:50 Three and a half years when Imran Khan was in power, did Bilawal, Mariam, Mian Sahib say on one occasion that we have to solve the problem with Khan Sahib?
07:58 They say that there is no competition with him.
08:00 He is with the ones who brought him.
08:01 He is selected.
08:02 So what is the difference between this and the conversation?